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04 Minutes from 27th February 2012
Page history
last edited
by Peter Verity 12 years ago
Date |
27/02/2012 |
Chairs |
Dave |
Time |
<18:45 - 21:00> |
Secretaries |
Jon C
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Location |
Quaker Meeting House |
Type of meeting |
Meet-up |
Attendees
(add yourself if missing)
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Table of Contents
Talk: Understanding the Money System
presenter: Mike Black
Mike Black delivered a presentation that does a very good job of explaining the fundamental underpinnings of our banking system. The videos embedded below are a recording of Mike giving the same talk at the Annual Bromsgrove Conference (a conference for monetary reformers).
Key points from the talk
- Mike's background
- studied mathematics at Oxford University
- worked at British Steel where he conducted operational research
- Having become interested in the monetary system, Mike, and an engineer friend of his, directed their combined analytical skills at making sense of the banking system's slight of hand.
- As mentioned above, Mike's talk was prepared for the Bromsgrove 2011 conference
- This event was organised by The James Gibb Trust, an educational charity working to reduce indebtedness
- The Trust sponsored Mike's talk
- Mike also introduced us to a quarterly publication called Prosperity which is associated with the conference
- He kindly brought some free copies along for us to take away and peruse.
- The talk aims to address a long-standing area of confusion:
- whether money is cancelled out of existence when a loan is repaid.
- Mike stressed that the mechanism by which money is created and destroyed is "like a conjuring trick"...
- a series of seemingly simple steps that can leave you scratching your head when you realise that wealth appears to materialise out of thin air and disappear again just as quickly.
- Key insights on what money is or, rather, isn't...
- the term "money" is rather imprecise as there are actually several types of money-like things, and these have very different properties
- Coins
- used to have intrinsic value owing to the use of precious metals
- now they only have value because we collectively trust that their effective value is reasonably stable
- Banknotes
- started out as IOUs from goldsmiths/banks to customers whose deposits they held, but have since evolved to become currency in their own right - much like coins
- Current Accounts
- you might think of money as being "in your account"
- as we all know, this isn't the case
- if you "have £100 in your account", you have effectively made a £100 unsecured loan to the bank
- your £100 of bank account money is actually a £100 IOU from the bank to you
- unlike coins and banknotes, bank account money cannot be freely exchanged
- for instance, you can't pay someone by giving them your bank statement!
- the IOU agreement is between the bank and you alone
- Banks' Reserve Balances
- this is a mysterious type of money that regular people will never come into contact with
- it is all held by the Bank of England (BoE) in accounts that belong to the banks
- at the end of each day, money is shifted between these accounts to adjust for inter-bank current account transfers
- e.g. if the net transfer of Natwest customers' money to Santander customers' current accounts is £1m
- then £1m pounds of reserve money will be moved from Natwest's BoE account to that of Santander
- This is necessary because Santander now has £1m of extra liabilities (IOUs to customers)
- see the second video for more on this...
- Mike went onto show how each type of money is affected in a simple series of transactions
- see the videos for the walk-through
- basically, there are three people and one of them gets a loan, pays one of the other people, and eventually pays of the loan
- there is no change in BoE reserve money - and so the bankers can legitamitely claim that they don't create reserve-money
- however, the example also shows that they DO create current account money
- thus, Mike unambiguously demonstrated that the country's money supply is at the mercy of private banks - QED
Q&A and talking points
- in response to the description of current account money as "unsecured loans from depositors to banks", Sue asked "can we deposit our money in the form of secured loans"
- Steve Bollom (sorry if name is wrong!) asked why banks aren't lending to consumers
- John Dixon explained that banks have to make loans to earn money (as interest)
- and that the more reckless ones (Northern Rock) actually borrowed vast sums of money themselves..
- so that they could lend it on again for a markup
- but they have to balance this risk with the chance that some of their borrowers might default
- Northern Rock lost this gamble in spectacular style
- But all banks are worried about defaults now because the world's economy is very unstable
- Consequently, they are reluctant to lend
- And, in fact, the government is asking them to simultaneously build their reserve ratio while lending more
- this doesn't make an awful lot of sense, and only serves to highlight how stupid and/or poorly understood the current system is
- also, several people pointed out that when they do lend, only 8% goes into "productive" projects
- the rest goes into assets (like property - i.e. mortgages), meaning another asset bubble is practically guaranteed
- Dermot made a related, and very interesting point...
- a lot of criticism of the banks focuses on their reckless gambling...
- but the real problem, as he sees it, is that these private institutions are effectively shaping the future direction of our nation
- their rush to fuel asset bubbles for personal gain... (previous point)
- means that they aren't investing in things that would benefit society
- in other words, by granting them the power to create money and direct it into the economy as they see fit...
- we have effectively given them the reins of the country :-(
- A new member (sorry, didn't catch the name) asked how one would describe Quantitative Easing using the framework Mike introduced.
- Peter explained that QE only adds to the reserve money supply i.e. that held in the Banks' BoE accounts
- This has grown by nearly £400 billion
- While current account money, has been reduced by £100 billion
- So the banks assets/liabilities ratio looks better... (i.e. defaults are less likely to bankrupt them)
- but consumers and businesses have a shrinking money supply, which is probably why growth is as low as it is
The videos
Other business
- Peter reported that he has looked into the price of a stall at peace in the park:
- It's only £20 and so this looks doable
- Next meeting will be March 26th @ a new venue...
60 Norfolk St Sheffield, South Yorkshire S1 2JB 0114 272 1089
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04 Minutes from 27th February 2012
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